Part two our secret
In part two it deals with issues more than the concentration camps and the politics of Germany, it deals with divorce and homosexuality. It talks about a child growing up not only from a home of divorce but with a sibling that is a homosexuality. Back then homosexuality was looked at as a crime and you could be killed. The child is afraid to be different from anyone. Growing up you just want to be the same as everyone else when in reality no one is the same, but you don’t see that until you are older. The camps were created to teach the “bad” the homosexuals and the Jewish that they were wrong and needed to punished. When one was lashed you had to count out loud how many times as because it was believed that you caused your punishment. One main question that was looked at was what is in the torturer’s heart? What makes people become violent? Which are some of the questions that we touched on in class. The idea of getting inside the human brain and understanding what makes us do the things we do. By looking at something so violent as the concentration camps as an example of what happens when people become violent and angry.
"Interpretation"
English 112Considering the concept of “reading” and the “true essence of comprehension” (or should I say interpretation?), I think that Griffin’s style of writing is very effective (if interpreted the way she wants us to). She is not a linear writer; instead she uses symbols to present her thought. The reader may find it very difficult to understand her
reading if he/she is not making parallels with the symbolism she incorporate in the text, he/she must analyze the information to deduct some sort of meaning from the text. This process in itself embodies the true essence of the reading process; thus, making her writing style effective and functional.
One can also classify her writing style as “complex”. As one “reads” he/she will realize that most of her reasoning interlocks with each other. The reader must realize Griffin’s “web of thought” before being able to appreciate her writing. I believe; however, that full comprehension of a piece as this depends solely upon the reader’s ability to interpret the text. His/her interpretation abilities are important determining factors where comprehension is concerned. Many factors affects Griffin’s writing style, her personal (childhood) experiences, religion, sexual preferences along with many other factors, influence her interpretation of the world. The reader has to be able to “tap” into Griffin’s mind in order to comprehend what she had originally intended for the reader to understand. It is almost impossible for the reader or anyone to “tap” into Griffin’s mind that is if he/she has telepathic abilities. When the reader reads, he/she also brings his/her biases in the interpretation of the text. Griffin might and probably will attach a slightly or totally different meaning to a situation than the reader will. This “interpretation” factor makes it harder to develop a totally liquid or mutual relationship between the “thinking” of the writer and the “thinking” of the reader.
This explains why some many people have different views of world!
English 2/26
I think this piece of writing is a couple things in one. I feel the author is attempting to a convey a story of the past to allow people to think and reflect on their own past. The author tells sad, emotional stories of the past to perhaps open herself up to the reader and allow the reader to feel more comfortable. I also feel the author takes advantage of her skills and adds her own thoughts in here and there. Like.... "I have come to believe that every life bears in some way on another." And...."The desire to know and be known is strong in all of us."
I feel these messages are added only to create more thought from the reader. These lines help the reader relate stronger to the author and her audience.
What can drive people to want to kill a race of human beings off the face of the planet? When Himmler is going over the process of killing off Jews, homosexuals and other people that may threaten the German motherland, it appears that the answer is a very logical one. I don’t think that there is remorse when it comes to the removal of undesirables in the Germany homeland. Concentration camps that Himmler implemented appear to run in the style of a typical slaughterhouse in which animals are systematically extinguished of in an orderly fashion. I just don’t see why the German people did not take action when it came to the death of millions of people. There was a study done at Yale to determine what would make people do such horrible atrocities, and the study showed that the history of extermination of a people is not a German trait, but a human trait that maybe driven by fear from an authoritarian figure, like Himmler who makes people believe that the only way to make his country better is by killing off people who are not like what the ideal type of a German should be. The study proved that when under the same circumstances like the German people, anyone can be driven to hurt or kill other people without questioning why they are doing it. Our Secret has showed that even when faced when looking at people in concentration camps, the German people still did not do anything about the death of Jews and undesirables. Our Secret may suggest that if you look into someone’s past there might be answers to the reason why someone might be a great person like Gandhi or a horrible person like Hitler, but that is only one way to discover who a person might become in their later years. People are on different paths in their lives and one bump in the road might make an individual a good person or a bad person. The overall question in this story is why people would be driven to do the violence that they do. What makes people do the horrible atrocities of the Holocaust, slavery, or go to war? Why?
our secret
I still think one of the main points of this piece is to explain how your past can effect your future. Whether it is physical, mental or both. This is reflected in Himmler's childhood, the narrator's childhood and also the concentration camps. When you reread this story and really think about it it is a very painful and violent story.
Our Secrets Part 2
In review of Griffin's tale, I have gleaned that we as humans only see the extraordinary; though each life has an affect on every other life the only ones that come into view are the ones that have adverse effects on the way humanity woks, or changes views of humanity in a good way. The extraordinary can be anything from standing out because of talents unfound in anybody else, or such vindictiveness that drives one into such selfishness, such as Himmler. Himmler thought only of himelf to force his way into a position where his word was the last word and his order was followed to the T. Without any regard to the peoples he had to literally crush to do so.
He was an extraordinary person, but not without effect. His life influenced so many other's deaths, and though people usually want to believe that they are doing what is right, but his hands give him another right to be viewed in a different perspective. Griffin brings up the topic of hands, and she even goes onto describe Himmler's hands: "Those who remember him say that as he conducted a conversation, discussing a plan, for example, or giving a new order, his hands would lie on top of his desk, limp and inert. He did not like to witness the consequences of his commands." Previous to this quote Griffin describes the punishment that homosexual males received if they were caught sleeping with their hands not in plain view on top of their worn blankets. These two pieces reflect each other, and give Himmler a haunting image of taking his own orders upon himself when dealing out more death and punishment. In this sense it gives Himmler, though later becoming more harsh and uncaring, an image of being remorseful to some extent. It is as if though Himmler does not- in full- know what he has done, but can see the tiniest bit of twisted humanity in what he has done and what he has become.
Griffin time and again addresses violence in her writing; whether it is heredity and is passed down from family member to family member. Or is born when terror is induced. Violence is universal, from overdrawn stress or desires to bring another down to your level. Griffin sees that the violence expressed onto the prisoners of the concentration camps was increased two-fold when a prisoner would not cry out in anguish. The physical display of pain induced by the SS brought relief to the operators of the camp. It was almost as if the transference of feelings was an equivalent exchange in which the pain brought relief, and the end justified the means of finding this relief. Violence is used to relieve feelings that are held back by an emotional dam, and bringing physical pain to others allows the person in pain to feel a different sort of oddly the same pain felt mentally and emotionally. People who commit acts of violence often do not see their acts as harmful, because it is a habit learned early, or enforced as something else. This correlates back to Himmler, and his not wanting to see the effects of his words, seeing violence as something that is normal. Something that is needed and thusly not wrong. I am not saying that I condone this, but this is showing me how Himmler could have committed these crimes without a second thought.
Secret....
After reviewing "our secret" in class and going over again, I compared it to the story I know very well "Anne Frank", which I think occurred around the same time. This helped me understand a lot more including the repertoires with the italic words, I think this story has a very powerful effect on someone, before reviewing it again I did not really care for the story.
Our Secret.....
I think after reviewing in class and going over it again myself, I started to understand more and more. Griffen's story is so powerful before when I read it the first time I did not believe it to be. Also re-reading , I could actually visualize the concentration camps and her telling the story, I was kind of putting it into the story of Anne Frank which is based almost during the same time, which helped me to understand alot more and clearer.
Our Secret II
As I mentioned before, he wants others to feel what he felt, he wants them to hurt, to experience his pain. Perhaps Heinrich feels threatened by the groups/individuals he arrests and places in camps. By beating them down, he feels superior and in control, thus they cannot hurt him.
"But the missle has in a sense has been forced away from its own presence; the wisdom that is part of its own weight has been transgressed. It finds itself thus careening in a space devoid of memory, always on the verge of falling, but not falling and hence like one who is constantly afraid of illusion, gripped by anxiety that cannot be resolved even by a fate that threatens catastrophe."
Like Heinrich, he has been forced away from his own prescence by his fathers rules. He had no grip of his own personality and feelings; He was programmed. Knowledge, wisdom, experience, thoughts/ideas make up a person (its own weight), these things for Heinrich have been deverted. He only knows what his father had taught him. He could not express himself, his own personal feelings, which were kept suppressed and eventually just became a void. This anxiety led him on a path of lethal destruction, he could not veer off of that path, even though it determined his fate, and the fate of countless others.
our secret pt.2
In this reading i realized the horrrors that happened in concentration camps. It sems that they were tortured for being different. If you were a homosexual or from another descent you were looked at as less than human. The way the camps were ran were horrible. For instance, homeosexuals were not allowed to put their hands under their blankets because they were thought to masturbate. Also we seen that the horrors follow them even after many years their minds still have an open scar due to violence. I was surprised on how torture was a way to get off to the commandant. With every shriek he would.....touch himself. I found that to be horrible.
Re/Viewing Griffin
Having read, theoretically reread, and discussed Griffin, why not return to her and respond to her writing "with fresh eyes"? This blog is kind of open as to your writing; the prompts are ideas, not point-by-point questions that require responses...
as always, you can also 'dialogue with' (comment upon) another's post if you wish.
- One of the things that (as I mentioned in class) really moves me is that in reading "Our Secret," I see how people can truly believe that what they are doing is "right," or "moral," though to others the same actions are deemed atrocities. Did the text lead you to question something that is not necessarily overtly addressed in "Our Secret," yet leads you-- perhaps through your repertoires-- to connect, to question, to try to work through?
- We had discussed what "problems" we think Griffin is working to solve through her writing. In some ways, the writing then becomes more difficult to access... or does it? Might this very visual text actually enhance understanding?
- Try writing using Griffin's style. Identify a problem and develop symbolism to work through the topic. (I made an attempt at this... if you'd like, you can read it here.)
- Imagine a conversation with Susan Griffin. You might want to create an interview and ask questions (and create her answers) or you might want to fashion a true conversation in which you both ask and answer questions, or simply exchange ideas.
Don't forget... post by 8 p.m. Sunday :-)
Like Father, Like Son
The confusion I found in this essay was how it jumped around. It was difficult for me to understand what was going on with who, and when.
As far as symbolism: In part one, the diary symbolizes order, something he can come home to.
In later years the uniform and his military life symbolizes a sense of belonging for him.
The family portraits portrayed the old fashioned style of the wife and husband role.
The wife's part being submissive.
The weight of his father's hand heavy on his shoulder is not just the physical feeling of the hand.
But the pressure of his rigid, militarialistic childhood. I don't even know if militarialistic is a correct choice of words...it was more like an sickness his father had that he passed on to his son.
The statments on missles are analogous to human beings. For instance: "The shell surrounding the nucleus is not hard and rigid; it is a porous membrane....." I think as children our brains are like sponges, we absorb everything that is around us, whether it is intentionally taught to us or not, and later in life chose which situations we want to remember, or surpress. "....the pores allow only some substances to pass through them, mediating the movement of materials in and out of the nucleus." Another instance was "The missle is guided by a programmed mechanism. There is no electronic device that can be jammed. Once it is fired it cannot stop." I believe this alludes to Heinrich's father (and later Heinrich himself). The father being the programmed mechanism. Once this method is engrained into you, it seems there is no going back (once it is fired it cannot stop). The author mentions Heinrich not writing about his feelings, only listing events in chronological order. Maybe his actions later in life at the concentration camps and even before that period when he found interest in those magazines of human/female is what he wanted everyone else to feel. He wanted everyone to feel his pain. He wanted them to feel what he went through. He wanted someone else to suffer.
In the beginning of pg 124, it talks about him not recording his feelings in his journals and harboring his secrets and all of this internal energy until his is battling with himself, and had "daily implosions", and is at war with himself. It says "...the voice of his father chastising him becomes his own." He becomes angry and he wants "his own obedience", and this may be yet another connection why he becomes who he did.
As for a thesis...I am not sure, I would have to read it a couple more times so that it flows and I can make something more smoothly of it. Right now it seems choppy and jumps around.
Maybe her thesis revolves around stages of our evolvement from womb to mature adult. How the outside elements affect us, how we are an open book. I am not sure.
If this was written more traditionally, I think it would lose its power, its essence. It may be easier too understand, but I think it would not make us think as much, or as deep.
The Fate of the Double Helix
Response to "Our Secret"Susan Griffin, author of “Our Secret,” has a very unique writing style; through out the text she quotes sayings of DNA and the components of the V-2 Rocket. The human cell and the effects of time (pictures and writings in his journals) in the manifestation of genes, stood out as major themes in her essay. She also parallels the make up of the V-2 rocket to the make up man, having a cell consisting of codes as well. The issue of “Respect” was another key element in her essay; she also spent a lot of time emphasizing the relationship that Hienrich Himmler had with his father.
The cell is the most fundamental unit of life; it is like a packet of chemicals that eventually erupts to define the individual’s character. Since her ultimate gold was wanting to find out why Hienrich Himmler behaved the way he did, it makes perfect sense to examine his blood line for any “traits” that may have triggered his actions. This theme also gives the reader the idea that Hienrich Himmler’s obsessive character is more than skin deep.
The V-2 Rocket has a mimic of the human cell. The cell of the V-2 Rocket holds pertinent information to its destiny, jus as the human cell. It is as if the people who built the rocket was unconsciously reproducing a replica of themselves; inputting all their bad traits as they go along.. A rocket is built with encoders (DNA) in order to secure its destiny. It is launched out to reach its destiny (or should I say demise), having no control over itself it goes where the encoders tell it to go. It finally reaches its target and produces ultimate doom. One may be able parallel Himmler’s life to that of the short destructive life of the V-2 Rocket.
The relationship (or the lack thereof) Himmler had with his father was one that was obsessed with power, authority and respect. This relationship is very significant because it ultimately helped to shape Himmler’s character.
I think the thesis of Griffin’s piece is that “Genes determines self perception, which eventually determines ones attitude”. She speaks a lot about how Himmler viewed himself (he was somewhat inferior looking to his other peers (genes)). His self perception is what ultimately made him into the monster he was.
I love the way Griffin wrote this piece. She is not a linear writer, she writes in parallels. I prefer this kind of writing because it evokes the thought process in the reader. She provides the information in a way that the only way to understand the reading is if the reader engages in some sort of thought process. This is more effective instead of just spelling out everything to the reader.
Like Freire, Griffin wants us as writers to create thought provoking essays to evoke thought in the reader. Isn’t that’s what writing is all about anyways?
Our secret part one
This reading was really sad. It was about the Holecaust and nuclear missiles. It also focuses on a boy while he is growing up in Nazi Germany. When he turned ten years old his father told him that he was now a man. His father gave him a journal to help him become a man. His father put his son through training in writing. It was scary to read about how the boy was treated. Everything was about structure and growing up correctly. In his journal there were illistrations that looked like children being abused, but in the eyes of the germans it was the children going through correction. The germans strived for perfection.
A horrible Secret
I think the theme of “Our Secret” is about the path that we as people take and the path that technology takes due to human development in such fields like rocketry and weaponry. The Second World War is a time in world history that introduced the atomic bomb into the vocabulary. Also, the concentration camps of Germany and Eastern Europe enter the world stage. The ability for the Germany to have a logical reason behind killing over six million Jews and other minority groups they deemed to be inferior, and for the United States to justify the bombing of Japanese civilian targets to end WWII are questions that I think Susan Griffin is trying to bring up in her prose. I think she wants to look back at the beginning of a human being at birth to see what might have happened to lead an individual on a path of good or evil. See appears to be looking at the life of Heinrich Himmler, which through a little research I have discovered was the leading official of the death camps and concentration camps that lead to millions of people deaths. I do not understand the references to nucleus of cells and RNA, but it appears that Griffin is using the paths of V-1 rockets to compare with the path of a person through history. It states in the text that eight out of ten of the rockets make it to within eight miles of their targets. What about when people are thrown into the equation. What happens if a human being hits or misses his/her their projected target and become a person like the Pope or Adolph Hitler. Himmler seems to have completed missed his target and the text suggests that it might have been his upbringing and the German discipline of child-rearing that might be a factor for Himmler to become the man he became. We are all on projected paths but what happens if there is a mishap on the way. Do we adjust or trajectory and find an alternate route or do we spiral out of control and crash and burn?
as time goes by...
I found it hard at first to try and comprehend this essay. Mainly because it wasn't written as you would think it ought to be. I usually don't write how i should, but I usually stay away from others work that isn't as it " should be". Anyway, after i got over the authors approach to her work I kind of liked her method of writting. She used the differing topics of biological science, human development and the missile to bring together what i think her main idea is. That because of the nature of things, or the way we start, it identifies who we are, for the better or the worst. Weeitehr take the experiences and the people that have helped to to form our live and ways in which we see the world for good or evil. But then again that is only relative to ones situation and pespective of the world. It is hard to think of the difference in which the essay would make if it was written differently. Granted it may be eesier to get what she wants for us to get, but then that is the perogative of an auther, the way i which they presnt their work.
Her way of writting shows me that we need to use as many aspect as we can to reach as many people that we can. Especially if what one is writting about is important to them.
griffin
I think the theme of this peice is how someone's past influences their future. She discribes Himmler's childhood and how that effected him as an adult. She talked also about her past and the relationship she had with her family. Many people can relate to her experiences. I think the "cell" is a metaphor for history. History as is the DNA of the cell is the blueprint for life.
I think her writing style teaches us to put faces in our work. This way people can relate. She writes like she talking to us one on one. I think draws in readers.
History- a thing of the past
I beilieve one of the major themes is time or the future. how she doesn't want history to repeat itself and wants humanity to improve. Griffin says that, " Time can be measured in many ways. We see time as moving forward and hope by our efforts this motion is toward improvement"(114). i think she uses this thread throught her writing. she uses time to present how she views the world. for instance she wirtes, " Photographs are strange creations. They are depicitions of a moment that is always passing; after the shutter closes, the subject moves out of the frame and begins to change outwrdly or inwardly"(138). i feel she uses the thread of time to show how we change and how we should progrss.
I also agree with Lexie that missles are a definite theme.I think they are a theme not only because she discusses them so much but how she presents them. that missles are uncontrolable once they leave the base and how they effect peoples lives. this relates to the theme of history or time. once something happens, it happens. you can't change what happens, you can only change what is to come. I think these themes is what she wants to get accross and what her thesis is.
i think a more traditional way of writing would ruin the impact i feel she is aiming for. i feel she wants to write about what she experiencesd and include these metaphors and themes to impact the reader.
i think she teaches us that a traditional way of writing is not always the best way to get your point accross. i think it urges us to be more creative with our writing and think even more about the way we present our ideas.
Our Secret
Griffin's themes and threads are: every so many paragraphs there is information about nuclecic acid cell bodies and how a missile is formed, and also side background information about missles. I think the significance of these themes and threads is because she is discussing about the fighting with the "Jews" and how everything was being handled, so in thinking in these terms including missles would be a good theme .
Her thesis I think is about how all this going on in the story shaped peoples lives, i can support his because one part of the story "the pain and humilation children endure are meant to benefit them."
I think if the story was written more traditionally it would make more sense because I was thrown off at the beginning with all little inserts of her "themes".
Considerations for Griffin
(These links may not work; if not, you'll have to access through consuls-> course reserves. If you have a slow 'net connection, you can download this reading in parts (you need to read all parts for Monday) Our Secret Part 1 Our Secret Part 2 Our Secret Part 3
Otherwise, here's the whole text: Our Secret
- What are her themes/threads (not characters or people, but images or symbols)?
- What is the significance of these themes?
- What other images/themes/metaphors would work as well and how?
- Although it’s easy to identify what “Our Secret” is "about," identifying purpose (thesis) might be a bit more difficult. What do you think is her thesis, and how would you support your claim?
- Do you think that writing “Our Secret” more traditionally would be as effective? Why or why not?
- Why do you think she writes in this manner? What can her writing style teach us about writing–academic writing specifically?
The 'Banking' Concept of Education
While reading Freire's," The 'Banking' Concept of Education" I feel that he is correct when he says that the "banking model" will never work in teaching. This being that, the teacher is constantly "feeding" information to their students with the students in return, only memorizing the information and not truly understanding it. I feel it may work at the given time, but as years progess it will catch up to the student and not allow them to truly learn the material. Freire also goes on to talk about instances of when the teacher speaks, and the students listen, or with the teacher disciplines, and the children are disiplined. I feel although, Freire is correct for what he is saying I feel that it has been noticed by others, and should be either altered or completely changed by a caring educator. This piece by Paulo Freire has taught me to not be an educator that has been frowned upon as a "poor educator" and to change the mold that some teachers have fallen into.
we as a people are evolving shouldn't our education?
I think that Freire has some great ideas. I understand that whoever translates it has to try to translate his exact words to keep the integrity of the author. However I think that in keeping the integrity you loose some of the message. A better edited version of this essay may be found easier to read and comprehend.
All that aside however, the main ideas of this essay are evident.Friere calls for this new kind of education that isn't just the traditional style of lecture. This isn't a new idea. It has been said by various people that we need a new hands on method of teaching etc. Freire takes it up a step by actualy purposes specific things which I liked. He mentioned how like just being lectured to and then spitting that information back on a test isn't really learning. I see it in my own classes I can miss tons of class sessions read the book and still pass the test just fine. What kind of teching is really going on then? The teacher is basically proving he or she knows how to write or plan a lecture and put notes up on a screen or board for studens to copy. While I will admit I do like how this permits me to be lazy, my desire to recive the education I a paying for is greater. I know I have learned more from teh classes that I can't miss or I will miss alot of material that can't be found in some book. In these instances I can see why Freire thinks it's so important to have a new form of teaching and learning. What the majority of education now is; is lecture. Is that really learning or just memorization. Is our education system set up so that those who can memorize well trump over the intellegent.
The banking system seems to be a good method of teaching that can absorbed by all students who all learn different ways. We have already seen that it has done well in the areas that have already implemented. It won't be easy to revolutionize the education system as freire states. But i agree with him that we need to stop talking about it and just doing it and really commit to it and go all the way with it. I say we throw the outlines of chapters out the window and never look back.
The other idea I would like to just bring up is that it seems teacher try to, or have to try to because of ciriculums, fit so much stuff into on year or semester. I think we should look at fewer topics more in depth. Really get to know those topics and have the"authority" we keep talking about in thattopic than just rushing through things and just touching on them. We need to start learning to learn and not just for a grade on a test. The stress of having to pass a test, and having concepts down and memorized in a certain amount of times causes students to do things like cheat on tests or take an aderal to stay up and finish a paper. I think the rush we put on education really causes problems. You don't need to fit everything into such a short amount of time.
Left. Left. Left, right left.
Some challenges with translational works is understanding what is really meant.
For example...if someone tells a joke in a language foreign to you, it may not seem funny when it is translated for you. Words that are alike often carry different connotations throughout different cultures, backgrounds, and our experiences.
Interaction, and experience is the key to learning. The banking concept of depositing and regurgitating facts is a great memory excersice, but not ideal for application, and hence LIFE.
Take mathematics for example (or any subject), just because you know the steps, can you apply it to an outside or practical situation? Can you apply what you've learned in your history class to determine what may have went wrong in the past, or to predict the outcome of a future situation?
As stated in the reading: "The more students work at storing deposits entrusted to them, the less they develop the critical consciousness which
would result from their intervention in the world as transformers of that world." I believe we are programmed like robots to accept, not to inquire, challenge, and discover. Pg 57 2nd paragraph: "....to "fill" the students by making deposits of information
which he or she considers to constitute true knowledge." We seldom look outside the realm as to why or how. Someone had to come up with "the answers" . Are we so confident in someone that we so willingly accept? Or are we simply the opressed?
I believe he is practicing what he preaches because he discusses changing a situation rather than changing your consciousness to adapt to the situation. The opressor would lean toward saying, "OK this is how it is, adapt to it." "Or here is the answer get to it." The author wants us to be AWARE that we have options and minds. He welcomes questioning whereas the opressor does not. "...problem-posing education involves a constant unveiling of reality." Little if nothing is predetermined. I myself have been referred to as a "dreamer", and I started to believe it, until I read this and saw that I am not the only one who believes there is an outside to the box. I do not want, need, nor have the time in my life for role play.
In the last paragraph I think Freire means these leaders cannot temporarily use the banking method if their ultimate goal is a revolutionary lifestyle. This method is hypocritical to their revolutionary lifestyle which these leaders "later" will join after they have molded you to their satisfaction. There needs to be fellowship from beginning to end, not authoratativeness or opression.
Things thought about but not said...
I would agree with everyone that wrote before me. Due to this 'work in translation', things are lost that the auther would maybe deem important. It also makes it a bit jumbled for the reader. Freire's final statement, to me, meant that you have to think always outside of the box. Yes, it is important to take the "norm" into consideration but to also realize that there is more than what is presented. This is important in all aspects of life. There will always be set ways of doing things. But there is nothing wrong with thinking or looking for other alternitives to a stated or set objective. I feel that he would agree with this. I also think that his views are a bit one sided. I say so because there could not only be the banking system or the problem posing system. It is important for everyone to be able to think about the questions posed and the information already gathered and taught. For the teacher to also be the student should be a given and visa versa. For as was said in class, everyone has their own speciality. But we all need to be taught, and in learning regardless of the form, have respect. Student to student, teacher to student and so on. There also has to be a want to learn so that after things are presented, questions are posed without fear of ridicule and they can be aswered and challenged not only by teachers but by students alike.
I don't think that Freire is "practicing what he preaches". Mainly because this is a written and published work. He's the teacher ahd we are the students or empty baskets. He is telling us how it should be, like I'm writting about how I think it should be. Granted he is putting his ideas out. Resulting in him being punished for it, which seems weird to me. What he speaks in regard to the problem posing way of thinkng is current today, though dominated by the banking method.
In writng you have to be unafraid. There may be criticisms but that makes you stronger if you belive in what you are writting about and the audience you are writting to.
English 112
English 112Symbiosis: An Educational Factor
Nothing is ever better than the original work itself, void of any translation. Compared to original works, documents that have been translated seem deficient. The true essence of the essay is lost upon translation. All languages differ in some aspect. There might not exit an English equivalent for a Spanish word, and visa versa. In this case, substitutes are used and the dilution/distortion of the original work begins. A text that has undergone many translations barely resembles the original work; this is due to the "language-translation barrier" that introduces the deformity of the meaning the original text meant to portray. Since "Pedagogy of the oppressed" is a translated work, the "language-translation barrier must be taken into account". Readers must acknowledge that this essay is not an original primary source, but an edited version (sub-primary source). I would think that if Paulo Freire should review this version of his essay, he would find some discrepancy with the way some of the literature is presented. Readers must take great caution when analyzing translated, edited or revised work.
“In the revolutionary process, the leaders cannot utilize the banking method as an interim measure, justified on grounds of expediency, with the intention of later behaving in a genuinely revolutionary fashion. They must be revolutionary–that is to say, dialogical– from the outset” (270). In this quote Freire, expresses that the “Banking Method” should not be used in the formation of a revolutionary society. In their pursuit to establish revolutionary societies, revolutionary leaders should not use this method as a temporary measure because of its convenience; while in the end plan to operate as legitimate revolutionary leaders. If this should be done, then the whole purpose of the selfless “Problem Posing Education” for revolutionary societies would be diminished. Thus, revolutionary societies must at all times conform to this mode of diabolic “cognitive-ness.”
If I had the opportunity to categorize Freire as a “Banking Method” educator or a “Problem Posing Education” advocate; I would chose the later. His style of writing allowed me the opportunity to engage in inference. While reading the essay, I was able to develop my own ideas. I must acknowledge that “Problem Posing Education” is a two way street; in this case I was on the receiving end. However, I do believe (based on is writing style) that if I had the opportunity to have dialogue with Freire he would demonstrate the “Problem Posing Education” method.
I would think that Freire’s would love for us as writers to write not only to document our thoughts but to using writing as a tool to explore and gain inference. Writing would be more effective if instead of writing as the “Subject” to “Objects”. One should write as a quest to learn instead of merely “depositing information” on a reader.
I need money from this bank
English 112: FreireWhen reading this selection and reading the last blog, I had some difficulties with the text as well. there was a lot to try to take in but the basic idea that is stress is the need to find alternative ways to teach people. The banking system of education is applied by many teachers who say that is the best way to due to the fact that state board of education all over the country are making their student take standardize testing. If a school does not pass the state requirements then a school may lose needing funding. That is the problem with trying to find alternate ways of teaching, but teachers tend to teach to the test which leads to the lack of alternate methods of teaching. There is also methods called chunking and scaffolding which are also effective methods of teaching. The first blogger stated that this is not an effective way to teach people, but I believe that a teacher's goal is just not to teach a subject, but to help young people make complex decisions later on in life. That is the goal of education, to be able to help young people make tough life decision and use reasoning and logic to come up with the right conclusions. I think that teachers know that their students are not going to retain who was the first person to die during the Revolutionary War, but what teachers' goals are to help their student realize their real potential to be better citizens in society. THe banking method may not be the best way to teach, but that is not what teachers are trying to only do.
Freire
The translation in this essay was very difficult for me to read because the words did not translate well and fit right, so it was hard to understand for me. Freire's quote means by being a teacher we need to come up with different ways instead of just "teaching", more hands on experience, activites, instead of just a lecture. I think Friere is a very persuasive and strong-willed writer in this essay and persuasion is everything in essays with topics like this. I am going to take his persuasion methods to apply them into essays, such as my project for this semester, because Friere defintely persuaded me!
The teacher student relationship
I found that the problem with reading a work in translation is that not all words can be translated exactly. Meaning that some words in the original language don't have a true translation. I feel it makes the reading more choppy and a little harder to understand.
in response to the quote I feel he is saying that the banking method, where teachers 'deposit' information into the students head, should not be used to fill the place for a better method yet to come because it stunts the students potential for learning. The students need to learn, using innovative methods, instead of listening to a teacher talk and later regurgitate the information back. The students aren't really learning using the banking method because they have no practical applications for the information they have memorized.
as a whole education needs to change. Teachers are very smart but they are just filling the students' head with facts they will never ever need again. If the banking method is continues students will have a hard time applying what they learn if they can remember it at all.
I think he hopes that we will learn that just spitting out information in our essays is not the best way to get information across. I find his essay to be very convincing and persuasive. He addresses and develops the essay with detail and factual information but makes it interesting and memorable. He is not just spitting out information but explaining things and following up with details.
What I remember most about my literacy is when I was growing up I watch Sesame Street and watched The Count try to help young children learn how to say, one, two, three, three birds, ha ha ha. Later in life I turned to Saturday morning cartoons and watched the Smurfs, Care Bears, and Pee Wee Playhouse. I can not beleive that I watch Pee Wee (connect the dots, la la la). I can remember looking deep in the closets and found this very interesting book of sexual positions, and later realizing that I had tumbled upon a Karma Sutra book. That was an eye opening experience at age six. I never slept as a kid and was fascinated by television, especially cable television. I was introduced to Saturday night movies in which HBO would show a new movie from the theaters. I thought that was awesome at the time. I grew up on the A-Team and Star Trek, the original series which made me into a sci-fi nerd. I love Star Trek to this day and can not believe that the Next Generation series is not going to make another movie. I pity the fool. I also loved to watch Macgyver and always tried to make my VCR become a bomb that could explode a locked door. During my time in middle and high school I moved away from television and began to be more focused on sports and outdoor activities. I grew out of my Power Ranger phase (and I know some of you in this class ran home to watch the Pink Ranger) and became obessed with watching Meet the Press and reading the New York Times and listening to NPR on the radio. I wanted to know more about the world around me than what cartoons had to offer.
Literacy Began...
My earliest memoirs of literacy as a child my mother reading a book about going to bed, putting on pajamas, and saying prayers. This book was definetly a golden board book, but I can never remember the title, if i ask my mother forget it.. That book has to be my fondest memory of early text that i remember. I remember also singing with my little sister my kindergarten songs I learned, and tryin to teach her at the age of 4. I also watched alot of Sesame Street, and this bumble bee show they took of the air for some reason, but remembering my father telling me that the show was good for young learners.
For the first time
literacy? What were my first memories of literacy?
listening to my parents speak of growing and living in a 3rd world country, the bible, sitting with my siblings reading bible stories with my parents before going to sleep at night and saying nightly prayers, children programs on PBS ... Mister Rogers, the one where people dressed liked animals and reading rainbow. Listening to the oldies radio station, stories on the radio. Being dropped of at the library and instead of doing homework roaming the stacks.
History of My Literacy
It's very hard for me to think back to my earlier years, especially where literacy came in. I was born in 1985, and the 80's are very fuzzy to me. I do remember one toy that I had that really help me out with reading. Speak N' Spell and Teddy Ruxpin was what really gave me my boost in literacy. Speak N' Spell was great because it really taught me how to pronounce the word correctly and spell it correctly. Teddy Ruxpin was the talking bear that when you put a certain tape in his back, he would move his mouth and read a book to you. I followed along pretty good and was able to start reading on my own. The first book I ever read by myself was
The Stinky Cheeseman. I was so excited that I went to everyone in my family and read it to them. This just shows how much I was excited to learn and be apart of society.
literacy
Some of the first things that stick out in my mind which I was reminded of here is the first personal computers that came out in the 80's. We had an IBM PC Junior, which had the huge floppy disks as well as the cartridges. The graphics on the games and programs are laughable when compared with today's technology.
I also remember writing letters via snail mail to my cousin in Maryland as well as my brother who was out in Cali. serving in the Marine Corps. because we were not yet graced by the presence of email.
give me a tree and some tv( and no i don't mean that in a redneck kind of way)
In the afternoon as a child there was nothing I'd like better than hanging out in my playpen and watching some T.V. With the exception of seasame street I don't even know what I was watching but I loved watching T.V. Once I got old enough to read I couldn't get enough of that etheir Baby sitters club and the boxcar children series were my favorite and at every birthday holiday or book fair i was sure to pick up a few. The first book I ever remember reading however was The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein. I fell in love with that book. It was very plain inside but I liked that. I remember how it felt even to just hold it in my hand. The book gave me this feeling. I'm not even so sure what it was about that book that i loved so much but i did. Sure the story was good but I read alot of good stories.
Curiousity
Being young and eager to learn/take in everything, I was always shooting my mouth off. Even if I wasn't sure of what I was saying, I would say it anyways. Literacy for me came from family. I was constantly around family and was always hearing people speak. I never really read books at a young age, but rather just listened to them being read. I was more a fan of having books read to me rather than reading them myself. Even in the classroom at an early age, books were always being read (to the students). If students were not reading, they were listening. One of the first books I remember was a book about a mouse who lived in a hotel room that he called home. There he would race around the leg-chairs in his shiny red little sportscar that somehow a mouse could drive. Moving on from that mouse I found myself reading licence plates. Since I can remember, I have been constantly moving. "Hey dad, where are they from", I would shout from the backseat of the car traveling on the highway. I guess my literacy came from curiousity. At the young age I was, all I could do was look at things. Look here, look there, next thing I knew I was remembering the things I looked at. Markets were also places that added vocab into my brain. Sitting in that frontseat of the shopping cart, I was in charge of the "food list". Sure I couldn't read what I was looking at but I would slowly put words to pictures. Each ile would bring new foods and those foods would soon match up with the list in my hand. Ran out of time.....
Literacy
The first thing i can remember is walking to school and hearing the church bells. i remember listening to people talk and since i lived in a funeral home there were always people around. i would mimick what they did. i even made up my first word. it was 'bucca' meaning pickle. the next thing i can remember is watching Barney. me and my sisters would dance and sing along. i was living in a small town before i moved to connecticut so there was very little to do. i remember my first movie was The Little Mermaid. my sisters and i would always make up our own games and liked to pretend we were in the movies. ....
my history of literacy
One of my earliest memories having to do with literacy is my grandmother singing me to sleep in french everynight. She also had books that she would let me follow along with while she was singing. In the beginning i was just looking at the pictures, but eventually i could follow along with the words. Also manners were very important to her so she would always sit with me and read this book filled with stick figures. They taught me how to say please and thank you. Manners were important to my grandmother and in the process she developed my first memories of literacy.
Language as I remember it
One of my first memories of language would probably be with my siblings. I am one of six, and we are all two years apart. I have twin brothers who had their own language and the rest of us sort of just picked it up. I loved to watch the special on television about the St. jude Children's hospital. When I was about 5 or 6 I knew about Cancer, Chemotherapy, Radiation, Osteosacoma and a list of other medical terms.
I was literate!!
When growing up I lived with a mixture of attitudes I lived with my mother, brother, grandfather, and father. It was a crazy way to come into this world but it happens to the best of us. I was raised in a christian church so my first words were church hyms and prayers. Learning new things was always an excitement because I was so little and the words that would normally come out of my mouth were the ones that weren't supposed to. Which at times seemed so cute until they were said in the wrong places and at the wrong times. Mama and Papa just never did want to come out though but I learned what I needed to.
generation of lol
i think our literacy of this generation has changed dramatically. i feel that the concept of the computer and text messaging has altered how we write. its hard to make that transition from real writing to aol or other things. Now when we talk to people online and other things we use lol or ttyl which mean laughing out loud or talk to you later. but i see myself and others bringing that to the classroom or another place. I believe that this is because of the new methods we have in our society.
The experience of learning "the language"
As I try to recollect on the beginning years of my literary foundation I remember...I was around the age of four years old sitting in church flipping through the pages of the of the prayer and hymnal books and pretending to read along with the reader over the speaker. As time progressed that activity did not hold my attention for much longer, which allowed me to explore other options to keep myslf occupied. As time passed I began to fall in love with the well loved book of tales called "Mother Goose". This book allowed my mind to run across the pages filled with stories and enormous visual images that have always caught my attention for more than necessary. Of course as school came I was introduced to other wonderful ways of expanding my vocabulary such as story time, wonderful Berinstein Bears books, and many others to follow. I feel that thoughout my learning process I have been able to learn and grow from my mistakes and advances, which as allowed me to me a creative writer.
Prompts for Freire
- This essay is a work in translation. What difficulties or challenges do you think it may present due to this?
- At the end of the essay, Freire states,
“In the revolutionary process, the leaders cannot utilize the banking method as an interim measure, justified on grounds of expediency, with the intention of later behaving in a genuinely revolutionary fashion. They must be revolutionary–that is to say, dialogical– from the outset.” (270)
What do you think Freire means by this statement, and what are its implications for education as a whole? - Review Freire again with close attention to how he develops his essay and addresses his reader. Is he practicing what he preaches? How so or not?
- What lessons might Freire want you, as a writer, to take away with you?
- How do you think you could integrate those lessons into your writing?
